Best/Worst Comedy

[Kaori]

It might not be a historic classic, but one of the funniest things around (don't know if it's still on anymore on cable or whatever but I don't get it at the moment) is Third Rock From The Sun. That show really rocks, but it did get slightly dodgy when the big giant head came into it. Although Shatner played him well. As well as anyone can play a big giant head...
Kaori

[Jamie_Clubb]

There's nothing worse than watching a great idea get milked to death. This is very apparent in US sitcoms, which come from the land of franchise and merchandise. It was painful to see the way "Married with Children" went. I used to love watching the early episodes (ahead of its time being an appropriate cliche that comes to mind), but it ended up becoming a very tired spoofy formular show.

Although I suppose the Brits aren't far behind either with our one-too-many Christmas specials

I never saw "Third Rock from the Sun" either, but the lead actor played a great villain in the action film "Ricochet."

[slideyfoot]

Well, if you read my original post I mentioned all of those

Sorry - didn't mean to imply you hadn't, Jamie.

I'd forgotten about 'Drop the Dead Donkey' - I agree, superb stuff. Thats another one I can thank Paramount comedy channel for, as while I think I watched it when it was on 'normal' TV too, the P comedy channel meant I could watch it right from the beginning, which was a treat.

The Gene Wilder/Richard Pryor film you are referring to is "Stir Crazy", although "Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil" is good.

Ah, that was it! Cheers Jamie - I can never remember the name of that film, despite it being one of my favourites.

Are there no Woody Allen films you'd at least concede had some quality then, Jamie? I still think you're being too harsh - he doesn't choose his audience, and he has made some genuinely funny films, like Bullets over Broadway. But looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on that one (well, not entirely as I'm sort of agreeing with you... )

Missed that last post about John Lithgow - he's an impressively multi-talented guy. Harvard educated, as well as doing Third Rock from the Sun, he's also a great villain, such as in Cliffhanger, and he's had oscar nominations (Terms of Endearment, 1983 and another one I can't remember), two Tony award for stage work (The Changing Room and M. Butterfly, I think), and he's also a best-selling author. Whatta guy.

[Jamie_Clubb]

Are there no Woody Allen films you'd at least concede had some quality then, Jamie?

No, can we not talk about Woody Allen unless it's about what a whiny little turd he is? I'll concede that it is often the way reference to his films is often used by people who want to impress you with their "artistic intellect", that probably riles me up more against the bloke's work. There was one film where he was a court jester that I remember smiling at. However, I revisited it years later and didn't like it. I think he is a great cariciture in the same way as George Bush, David Beckham et al are to mimick. I find most Woody Allen lampoons very funny, but the man himself fails to hit my funny bone every time.

[slideyfoot]

There was one film where he was a court jester that I remember smiling at

Is that from 'Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex, But Were Afraid To Ask" (or something like that)? The bit with the chastity belt? And theres also that bit with the giant breast bouncing down a big field, and an 'Igor' type character who's the way he is because of an extremely long orgasm?

[Mofogie]

Chapelle's Show is the best comedy to come in a long time.

id rather watch his show than any other right now. its controversial, crude yet honest, creative, and funny as hell.

i saw some episodes on suprnova.org might wanna check it out

[OzShen]

Ali G!

I just love the way he can take someone like a high-up member of government and just bring them to a lower standard by asking such naive questions.

BTW, hypothetical question, but what would you guys do if the culturally-challenged Borat came to your MA class?

[Electrophile]

Some people brought up both Family Guy and South Park. I honestly like FG much better because the humor is less scatological and the language is slightly cleaner. However, it is more offensive in different ways...

Stewie Griffin Soundboard

I also think Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson are a hilarious combination. I thought the Royal Tennebaums was overrated, but Zoolander was really really ridiculously brilliant. You have to watch it with an open mind and if there is a movie for the world's most cameos, that movie takes the cake. Of course, Paris Hilton cites that as a role, so maybe not... Meet the Parents was hysterical too... and how can we forget Office Space?

[Jamie_Clubb]

I mentioned Sasha Baron Cohen (Ali G) in my original post. I loved all his stuff up until the feature film. That overkilled it for me. His series in America was a patchwork of brilliant and tedious. I think the Ali G character has run its course now. Like Alan Partridge and David Brent, it's a fantastic and very original character, but needs to know when to bow out.

Now Borat is still excellent and was by far the best part of the US series. His new character, Bruno the very camp fashion designer took a little while to like, but was absolutely fantastic visiting Alabama: "The gay capitol of America." It had me in stitches.

I want to see more Family Guy, it seemed liked the natural adult successor to The Simpsons, but got out whilst it was on top. South Park seems to got through peaks and troughs.

Ben Stiller seems to be a less cheesy version of Adam Sandler. Meet the Parents captured that "exclusion" feeling very well. This is not to say I don't like Adam Sandler, but I think he represents the Happy Days feel, which is likeable and reliable, but not amongst my top ten. God! I certainly know how to make comedy sound dull!

[slideyfoot]

I don't think Bruno is a new character, just one he didn't feature in the show before. To mention the Paramount comedy channel yet again, there used to be these brief skits in between the programmes, and 'Bruno' was one of those - that was at least 6 years ago now, if not more. Presumably Bruno was one of various characters in Cohen's original comedy routine (which I assume he had before he made it to TV - not too sure of his comedy origins, if he was in Footlights or anything like that).

A far better piss-take of high level politicians - and numerous other 'celebs' - is another comedy (well, satire to be specific, taking aim at news/current affairs broadcasting) I forgot to mention - The Day Today and the later Brass Eye, both by Chris Morris. Very funny, very sharp, and a lot more humiliating for the celebrities that got taken in and took it seriously.

Adam Sandler is awful, IMO, especially as his career has 'progressed' (though I use the term in a purely chronological sense). The Wedding Singer was ok, but he hasn't made a decent comedy since then. Puerile American 'gross-out' humour, which has got worse and worse - also destroyed the Austin Powers series (though Mike Myers is of course Canadian).

[Jamie_Clubb]

You are probably right about Bruno. There was a similar character he did at the end of "Da Ali G Show" dvd (second British series "Ali G Aiiii" I think it's called) who interviewed a neo nazi skinhead band. Very funny.

I loved Dennis Pennis's celebritity interviews (somewhat paraphrased).

To Madonna: "Is there any part of your body you we haven't seen? Howabout a kidney shot?"

To Arnold Schwarzenegger: "I hear you have the biggest name in showbusiness... 14 letters."

[slideyfoot]

Not sure if you missed my question some time earlier, Jamie (and anyone else?), but as you appear to be relatively well-informed about comedy, I was wondering what your opinion was on the 'Best British Sitcom' thing thats been on TV recently? The top ten line up which emerged from the original top 100 vote was, in no particular order (which they made sure to stress): Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, Yes Minister, Dad's Army, The Good Life, One Foot in the Grave, Only Fools and Horses, Open All Hours, Porridge and The Vicar of Dibley. Now, out of those I could accept Blackadder, Fawlty Towers or Yes Minister getting the title of 'Best British Sitcom', and possibly Dad's Army too, but none of the others for various reasons. Also, Father Ted and Red Dwarf should have been in there (they managed positions 11 and 18 respectively in the top 100).

What do you think of the selection that emerged?

Also, I'd still like to hear why people find Seinfeld so funny, if anyone can pin it down to that degree, though of course its true that comedy is a matter of taste.

[Jamie_Clubb]

Well, I don't know about being well-informed. I'm a bit of a know-all f*%$ all when it comes to many topics. I've grown up with entertainment all my life, I come from a showbusiness family and I've worked in various aspects of showbusiness, but I'm hardly a comedy historian (talk about an unfunny juxtaposition).

I'm with you on Blackadder, Fawlty Towers and I can understand why they liked Yes, Minister (although it never floated my boat, I preferred "The New Statesman" with Rick Mayal).

Dad's Army: One of my mum's favourites. It had great characterisation (often taken off to this day), an excellent cast and was very traditionally British with its humour. Although not amongst my all time favourites, I like the fact it has a placing.

The Good Life: I suppose it's the comfort factor, which I think strikes a nerve with most people who like genuine comedy (in other words not just vicious snipes and dirty jokes). The British love to take the micky out of themselves and the snobbish divide here is testament to this. However, I don't really see why fans of The Good Life didn't vote in "Fresh Fields", "Terry and June", "George and Mildred", "Ever Decreasing Circles" and all the other 30 something to mid-life bland sit-coms. Actually looking at that lot I suppose we got off lightly. They could have had "Butterflies" in there urrgh! (where's the hack up emoticon?)

One Foot in the Grave: The show certainly had its moments, and this came as no surprise to me whatsoever. It has aspects of the tragi-comedy, which is a difficult genre, but is often done very well in the UK. See the feature film "East is East" for example. Victor Mildrew is a well known and well loved character in British pop culture. Again, not one of my favourites, but it's very popular and appeals not only to its own age group (OAP's). It was certainly better than "Waiting for God", which did have its charm.

Only Fools and Horses: I went out for dinner with both David Jason (Del Boy) and John Sullivan (the writer of OFAH). This is probably THE most popular British sitcom and audiences don't want to see it go. Again, you have the tragi-comedic aspect, which makes up its formular. It would have rated amongst my "almost favourites" if it hadn't been so badly tarnished by the too-many-Christmas-special syndrome.

The Vicar of Dibley: I love Dawn French's comedy and Ian Richardson is a great writer, but this never did it for me. I can see its appeal, but it's far from being an all time great.

Porridge: You've got to admire the ambition and originality of setting a comedy in a prison. It resembled the Dad's Army style with a strong cast, a fair bit of loveable characterisation, but with less slapstick and a hint of tragedy at times. I preferred it to One Foot in the Grave, mainly because I think Ronnie Barker is brilliant, but it won't be a DVD set I'll be counting in my collection.

Open All Hours: Featuring both David Jason and Ronnie Barker. In retrospect, where could it have gone wrong! Looking at its placing it didn't, but not my cup of Rosey Lee, if you know what I mean

It would appear that the key to classic comedic success in Britain is to follow these guidelines.

1. Employ Richard Curtis as your writer
2. Employ either Ronnie Barker or David Jason or both
3. Send up the British establishment
4. Get the "comfortable" element with reliable characters
5. Loveable rogues are good (OFAH, Blackadder, Porridge, Dad's Army etc. The Good Life is perhaps the only exception here)
6. cultural divides going, be it between classes or ages (although if you are going to handle racism and bigotry don't go the way of "Love Thy Neighbour", Alf Garnett is even looked down upon now, which is quite ironic)
7. Everything before the seventies isn't funny (no classics from Alan Simpson and Ray Galton "Hancock" and "Steptoe and Son" )

Red Dwarf: I've given my review of this.

Father Ted: Brilliant, much better than the Vicar of Dibley.

[slideyfoot]

Did you take a look at the site I linked? You might find it interesting - it goes into depth on pretty much every British comedy you can think of. In terms of the top ten, in case you're not aware of this, there have been weekly programmes running on Saturdays in which one celebrity or another 'puts forward the case' for why a particular sitcom should be voted Britain's best. Its made for interesting viewing so far, despite the fact that most of the celebs employed are woefully inadequate for the task; next week, Carol Vorderman is going to try and convince us to vote for The Vicar of Dibley. Hmm - should be entertaining to see what she comes up with...

However, they did get people who actually knew what they were talking about for Fawlty Towers and Yes Minister, which were done by Jack Dee (famous British comic, in case anyone doesn't know) and Armando Ianucci (more of a political satirist and writer than a comic - used to do a programme years ago called 'The Saturday Night Armistice', and was also involved with both The Day Today and Alan Partridge). Because of that, those two documentaries were particularly good. John Sergeant was the advocate for Blackadder, and while he isn't an expert on comedy, he is at least intelligent and relatively witty, so that episode also proved entertaining.

The advocates arguments are summed up on the site, though it does miss out some important information - for example, Armando Ianucci pointed out, to those who were swayed by such things, that 'Yes Minister' won the BAFTA for Best British Sitcom three years in a row, although that is included in the more in-depth analysis elsewhere.

The only person who has actively irritated me so far is Clarissa Dickson-Wright, who the advocate for Open All Hours. She put forward a lack of political correctness and smutty humour as a plus point, which I found rather weak, and then went on to claim that the word play was especially notable - utterly ridiculous when compared to Yes Minister, which clearly has the most intricate dialogue of any sitcom in the top ten.

See the feature film "East is East"

I thought that was quite good, but a bit overrated, as was 'Bend it Like Beckham'. Its been done before, and far better with a considerably broader range, in Hanif Kureishi's book, 'The Buddha of Suburbia' - the series wasn't as good.

[Chiana]

Tom Green can be funny sometimes, and although you'll think I'm an idiot, Jackass can be funny sometimes too. But I don't like the spinoffs, and I'm glad it's stopped before it got old.
Elise